Center of the Milky Way galaxy

[johneapolis]

What direction is the center of the Milky Way galaxy from the Sun? Is it towards Pluto right now?

[Marshall]

What direction is the center of the Milky Way galaxy from the Sun? Is it towards Pluto right now?

Yes Pluto is in that general direction now. But Pluto moves around.

John, the traditional way to indicate a direction in the sky is by mentioning which CONSTELLATION that direction is in.

Another helpful bit of info is to say what time of year that direction or constellation is overhead, say at midnight or some other easy to remember time like 9PM, and crossing the "high-noon" north-south line called the meridian.

The direction of Milky center is in the constellation SAGITARIUS. And what makes it especially easy to find (on summer evenings when it is overhead) is that Sagitarius has a very recognizable NEIGHBOR CONSTELLATION CALLED SCORPIO made of bright stars that form a kind of fish-hook pattern like a scorpion's tail. The Center of our galaxy is right near the TIP OF SCORPIO'S TAIL.

These things don't change on a human timescale. It will still be there in 5000 years. You can count on the center of our galaxy always being right near the tip of scorpio's tail essentially always.

But PLANETS LIKE PLUTO MOVE AROUND SO PLUTO IS NOT A VERY GOOD MARKER, also it is very faint. Not a naked eye object.

The essential thing I want to say now is WHEN TO LOOK if you want to see the heart of Milkyway galaxy.

As I recall Scorpio rises at midnight around 1 April, to the Southeast. And rises earlier and earlier as we roll into Summer. I could be off by an hour or so but this is roughly correct.

It rises two hours earlier every month, so on 1 May it already is rising at 10PM. Or I could be off by an hour or so.

By 1 June it is rising round 8PM. So by midnight it is well overhead. I think late evening in June or July would be a good time to look.

I'll have to double check to make sure, when I have time later today.

I checked for Pluto. It is currently at RA 18 hours, so it would be in the Sagittarius constellation, roughly the same direction as Center.

EDIT I was rushed this morning and didn't have time to correct. I just got back to this and corrected some errors.

[Fuqin]

If you got Google earth you can find it there on the sky maps , I could not find a planet in that direction planets move anyway, but to locate it your best bet is using the constellations the tip of the arrow of Sagittarius seems to be close mind you I’m looking at a map not into the night sky.
EDIT how strange i didn't see your post at all marshal, I only posted in fact because I thought no one had replied to the chap, anyhow nice to see I got it right anyway pfft :)

[Marshall]

Two eyes see better than one. Good you responded! I will try Google sky map later. Two people answering give a stereoscopic feel to the response. Cheers Fu Qin :-D

[Marshall]

Fu Qin, I especially like the moment in the years when (at latitudes around 30 degrees N and S) it is midnight and the plane of the ground you are standing on coincides with the plane of the galaxy.

Then the Milkyways band is all around you along your horizon. You can see Milky Center and you can also look in the outwards radial direction of the galaxy.

And you can also point your eyes in the direction that Sol System is traveling in its orbit around Center.

Have you ever noticed having the Milkyway band of fuzz all around you along the horizon?

I think you live around 30 S latitude. I seem to remember, what is it? Perth? I don't recall specifically.

In that case that particular coincidence midnight should happen around 1 October

That is, 6 months out of phase with when it happens for me in N hemisphere. Which is 1 April. I think of April First as "galaxy midnight"

[Marshall]

I checked it out with this star map.
http://astroclub.tau.ac.il/skymaps/monthly/index.php

You set N latitude = 30, say, or 32. And date =1 April. And time = 0 hours. (midnight)

then you will see that the Milkyway band roughly coincides with the horizon.

It is kind of neat.

This particular map is set up for Europeans so there is a "European time zone" box. I make sure that is clear so it coesn't get confused.

I've been experimenting and find that latitude +25 and -25 are in some respects better than latitude +30 and -30. But it doesn't matter a lot. You can still see the Milkyway running along the horizon in either case. And figure out the main landmarks of our place and travel in the galaxy.

[Marshall]

To see what it might be like on 1 October in Perth I reset the latitude to be MINUS 32. So just put -32 in the box instead of 32.
And again put the time to be midnight i.e. 0 hour 0 minutes.

I also have been setting longitude and "european time zone" to be blank or zero because the time is local time so it shouldn't matter.

So what I get is approximately similar with the Milkyway band approximately along the horizon. Sagittarius (abbreviated Sgr) is setting in the west. The galaxy Center is setting in west and also Scorpio.

So for someone in the South hemisphere "Galaxy midnight" comes around 1 October. Six months different from when it comes for me in North hem.

In either case our ground plane that we are standing on coincides with the plane of the galaxy.

So we can point in one direction towards Center and in another direction where the Sol system is going at around 250 km/second relative to Center as it orbits around Center. This orbit direction is in constellation Cygnus, which lies in the galaxy plane, right in the band but 90 degrees from Center. NE if Center is SE, and NW if Center is SW.

[johneapolis]

Thanks for the information guys. Obviously the planets are moving that is why I said "right now". I am just trying to see where the center of the galaxy is on the Solar System Live chart. I checked a lot of charts but none with the stars included current locations of the planets.

Is the Sun going around the center of the galaxy in the similar direction as Earth is going around the Sun? Aren't the months the same in the southern hemisphere? The month in order to face the direction the Sun is traveling around the Center of the Galaxy at night would be the same just the opposite season.

Thanks again.

[Marshall]

Is the Sun going around the center of the galaxy in the similar direction as Earth is going around the Sun? Aren't the months the same in the southern hemisphere? The month in order to face the direction the Sun is traveling around the Center of the Galaxy at night would be the same just the opposite season.

Thanks again.

No it is not going in a similar direction. The two orbital planes are tilted sort of 60 degrees to each other.
And if you leveled them out in the most straightforward way and looked down on them the earth would be orbiting counter clockwise around sun and the sun CLOCKWISE around Center.


If all you want to do is point your finger in the general direction the sun (with its planets) are going in orbit around Center, you can do that any time you see Cygnus in the night sky. Just point your finger at that constellation.


I'm talking about a different experience. Out in the country away from city lights on a dark night when the Milkyway is visible, you go out in a meadow or on a hiltop and you see the Milkyway all along the horizon. The plane of the galaxy coincides with your horizon.

It left an impression on me, of how our little solar system fits into the galaxy. I can picture the motions better now. It leaves a visual image. For me. Maybe not you or somebody else. I think Fu Qin might dig it.

[Fuqin]

Fu Qin, I especially like the moment in the years when (at latitudes around 30 degrees N and S) it is midnight and the plane of the ground you are standing on coincides with the plane of the galaxy.

I have to say Marshall your incredibly observant .
1):- you addressed my handle as Fu Qin as opposed to Fuqin and the way you present my name is actually the correct pin yin, I didn’t bother as I thought, even the I after the Q would present problems; and has done, well done : ) .
2):-That I live in Perth yes ! 30deg latt is correct, and you looked at what I might see in the night sky, this touches me it really dose and that’s an incredibly broad thing that you have achieved.
All I’m saying is basically thanks .
I hope I can say this without making you blush, people like you are not so common in the field of education, you move between the worlds of the quantum and the humanities, and in the future that’s going to be IMHO crucial to the human world.
I’m aware of the other moderators, and some who are not ,but it would take me books to say what they have all contribute to me personally.
It’s all good!
That’s why I like it here.
But if I can feed back some distinction to you personally Marshall, I would say you have a balanced sensitivity to all the knowledge that flows throw this site.
I’ve watched your investigation with great interest , and how keen you are to encourage, in any case it will look like I’m some kind of sycophant if I keep going and that’s not the reality , I was just amazed at your attention to detail, and your compassion. Amazing :)

When the Milkyways band is all around you along your horizon. You can see Milky Center and you can also look in the outwards radial direction of the galaxy.

Unfortunately ‘no’ I am in the most isolated city in the world and the light pollutants still prevents me seeing stuff like that .
I can say however that the night sky when I was 12 in the blue mountains in Sydney, [Bilpin] to be Extraordinary!, It allowed me to see not only the band of stars we resided in , But the colours of crimsoned, blue and white that in every falling star a child might delight, Like the now known Iridium flares from satellites, And the satellite’s themselves, Extraordinary and unnatural , While carbonaceous, metallic and silicate streaks, Would entertain like natures freaks ,The ancient omens now dissolve in the arms of my mother who has some knowledge at why we do not fear but always wonder.

[Marshall]

That tells me that we are each getting something from each others posts, which I'm glad to hear. Thanks!
I'm interested in your ideas about introducing nature mathematics astronomy to your young daughter. I am guessing she must be 8-10 now. That is just a wild guess, I can't think why I imagine that.

A parent can often be the one to endow a child with extra curiosity and desire to relate to wider universe.

My favorite story is Kepler's mother (a generally cranky strongwilled person who was in her old age tried for a witch I think because she didn't get along with her neighbors) taking him up on a hill at the edge of their village in the dark after his bedtime, when he was around 6 years old, to see a COMET!!!

I think western civilization and mankind in general owes a debt to Kepler's mother for this excellent deed. Because she planted the wonder seed in a good place at the right time. It just goes to show what can happen :-D.

[Fuqin]

I'm interested in your ideas about introducing nature mathematics astronomy to your young daughter

A telescope works wonders, its then that it becomes real for them, but NH! The first one reminds me of me, [social Interaction are paramount]
however ‘Li Li’ shes my youngest , she’s a little go getter ,and loves it when I tell her things ,like how to tell the difference between the planets and stars --- she is extremely observant .
I guess in order to address your question the key is intimacy, by this I mean; I tell my kids “this whole thing made you”, the ‘thing’ being ‘everything’>( universe) ,or making the external world part of the internal .
Now that’s extremely holistic, but it avoids going into the God thing, call me a coward, but, my kids deserve an opened mind, there is one thing I feel is crucial , it’s always magical , and really it is!!!!
But then it was my kids that turned me from atheist to pantheist and that’s something we are all going to have to address.

[Fuqin]

I think western civilization and mankind in general owes a debt to Kepler's mother for this

Indeed !
but all kids are different,some are painters and some are merchants ,they are IMHO defiantly not blanks, and though I’m am a proponent of cultures influence over genetics , having adopted two girls of different stock ( forgive my crudity) they are completely unique.
ha ah ah being a parent ‘is’ a science and id like a diploma ,current 26yrs to 5yrs divided by 4 , god I feel old

I am guessing she must be 8-10

Time fly’s marshal ‘13’ and a 5 yr old as mentioned above .

[scienceman3]

yesi it is twards pluto right now but it changes periodicly in fact the center of the milky way galaxy is foing to line up with the sun and the earth during the winter sultus on december 21 2012

[DragonFly]

Yes, Marshall is certainly one good guy.

[Marshall]

Thanks DF! It's mutual. Except that what I especially value about this board, besides the kindness/senseofhumor/humanity of some of the people, is that a half dozen or so are really *interesting*.
People here have highly distinct personalities, I'm amazed at how much some people know and the variety of their knowledge and experience, and their handling of language--individual style--and the unusual things they do and/or contribute to the board. Can't quite put it into words. Now that I think of it, it might be more than halfadozen. It would be a remarkable experience if everyone were sitting around a table. My wife makes excellent pizza, but our diningroom table isn't big enough.

[moranity]

there are a couple of excelent free astronomy programs, celestia is excelent for example, this would give a very good feel of the solar system's position at the moment, its open source and available for windows and linux, they even have little scenarios people have made like the moon landings etc.
also, there is an amazing space flight simulator called orbiter which simulates the apollo missions etc, and i mean really simulate, my son spent about 30 hours real time reenacting the apollo mission that orbited the moon.

[Marshall]

Thanks for the links!
Both have impressive galleries of screen shots. Both are free to download and run on your computer.
Orbiter runs on Windows PC
Celestia runs on Windows but also on Mac OS X. I have not tried downloading and installing it, just looked at the screenshot samples and read the description. A lot of interesting capabilities---tempting.

[moranity]

celestia also has an educational install with tonnes of interactive set pieces.